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November 25-28, 2022 | Winter Storm Speculation


Penn State

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I'm dreaming of a white.. Thanksgiving? It is expected that over the next several days temperatures will be below normal across the eastern United States. After that, modeling shows a moderation to more seasonal, and potentially above average, temperatures as we approach Thanksgiving. There's quite a bit of uncertainty as to the strength and duration of the moderation, and its influence on potential disturbances during this timeframe. Considering this uncertainty, this thread is both speculative and broad. What there seems to be agreement on is that there will be a disturbance impacting the eastern United States during this timeframe. This speculation is supported by an organic forecasting method using the Bearing Sea Rule (BSR), which suggests an eastern trough and accompanying disturbances during this timeframe. Also in support is the MJO, which is forecasted to be approaching phases 7 and 8 towards the end of November. The forecasted teleconnections are a coin flip, but the NAO, AO, and PNA all appear likely to be on the negative side. Though a -NAO and -AO are favorable, the -PNA is less favorable. As for modeling, the GFS, GDPS, and ECMWF each handle the trough axis and energy differently; with the GDPS being the most progressive (S+E), and the ECMWF being the most aggressive (N+W). In terms of my thoughts on this speculative potential, I have the notion to believe that warmth will prevail; however, I sense that the door is open for a more southerly route. I also sense that a Miller B is on the table, especially when I look at the ensembles, and even the BSR reflection. With that being said, hopefully the more seasoned and knowledgeable folks on this forum can support or reject these notions. I have posted an ensemble comparison in support of this potential, and all other data can be found in the spoiler. Regardless, it will be a pleasure to track this speculative potential with everyone on the forum! As always, happy tracking! 

Ensemble Comparison | Hour 198 (12z GEFS, CMCE, EPS)

1340059877_EnsembleComparison(Hour198).gif.5ff8f3da1f34d8b72e44849463143d78.gif

Spoiler

Teleconnections (-NAO, -AO, -PNA)

NAO

1699096238_NAOForecast(1116).png.65f075bf4647297f5517c794ad4a38ca.png

AO

393711415_AOForecast(1116).png.a8e130cf61af86d56fe43201e4f48039.png

PNA

1319791540_PNAForecast(1116).png.c5b3b32c768fd4fed79ceca2a1254c29.png

Bearing Sea Rule (BSR) | 11-26 + 11-30

2074549398_BSRReflection(1126).png.39d089d024188bff47a1cf120a409693.png

1317700196_BSRReflection(1130).png.8581fd791952842548fbdf2affc00796.png

MJO

898557982_MJOForecast(1116).png.1b83cc72c42d16d00cc5f40bc777f544.png

Modeling 

GFS (12z Hours 174-258) | Surface + 500mb

775881351_GFSSurface(Hours174-258).gif.c9b157b45327566fafd240402da40c9f.gif

865051945_GFS500(Hours174-258).gif.c98fd500ade724655bfb28c471aa8ff0.gif

ECMWF (12z Hours 174-240) | Surface + 500mb

565927199_ECMWF(Hours174-240).gif.993b577d2f33b0304033ac37a4060ec0.gif

129141266_ECMWF500(Hours174-240).gif.63686e6588a46caf5efdab62ba4167d4.gif

GDPS (12z Hours 174-240) | Surface + 500mb

293182421_GDPS(Hours174-240).gif.95e9f2690d820b0ff38df55448eff295.gif

356674840_GDPS500(Hours174-240).gif.3ad90812b5f9412e0c1988d4ad38b438.gif

Ensembles 

GEFS

1037020388_GEFS(Hours174-222).gif.ac435951d02578b89bb02811504b5805.gif

EPS

1068718784_EPS(Hours174-222).gif.db65977c4ab481894c4c287b67720dd0.gif

CMCE

336207956_CMCE(Hours174-222).gif.cf21fc808c977bf6362895aa2257813d.gif

 

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  • The title was changed to November 24-28, 2022 | Winter Storm Speculation

GFS has been interesting the past week, spitting out some snow monsters at varying locations, but keeping the idea that something significant looms for the region.

 

12z EPS members went fairly zzz for snow in my neck of the woods, but chance of precip is high.

Screenshot_20221116-164128_Chrome.jpg

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5 minutes ago, JDClapper said:

12z EPS members went fairly zzz for snow in my neck of the woods, but chance of precip is high.

The Euro operational was the same. However, one observation I had on the Euro for the 20th timeframe was that it was too far west / amped. Each situation is different, but hoping it’s the left field (literally too far left.. lol) solution. Long way to go. 

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So.. This GFS run sparked my historical curiosity. I need to do more research, but some of the largest Thanksgiving snowstorms occurred in 1950 and 1971. Coincidentally, both of those storms occurred on November 24th and 25th. This storm would land right around those same historic dates. The storm in 1950 was coined as "The Great Appalachian Storm". The storm from 1971 dropped around 2 feet of snow in Northeastern parts of Pennsylvania and Southeastern parts of New York state. You can read about it via the Washington Post using this link. Does anyone on the forum remember these events? Curious if there are any pattern similarities?

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3 minutes ago, Penn State said:

So.. This GFS run sparked my historical curiosity. I need to do more research, but some of the largest Thanksgiving snowstorms occurred in 1950 and 1971. Coincidentally, both of those storms occurred on November 24th and 25th. This storm would land right around those same historic dates. The storm in 1950 was coined as "The Great Appalachian Storm". The storm from 1971 dropped around 2 feet of snow in Northeastern parts of Pennsylvania and Southeastern parts of New York state. You can read about it via the Washington Post using this link. Does anyone on the forum remember these events? Curious if there are any pattern similarities?

This is much closer to something larger 

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GDPS doesn't incorporate the cold air like the GFS, but definitely has the storm. I imagine this would produce quite the ice storm for the interior if it verified verbatim. 

827367696_GDPS00z11-17.gif.839f714bd92a3fb68acbbad30aed0bf4.gif

Edited by Penn State
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ECMWF looks late.. but is it that the energy in the SW lags and misses the energy diving in from the north? If those remain hooked up, I think it looks much different. Once again, I think the models are sorting it out, but there’s a lot there if the energies can align. Both the ECMWF and GFS now show that stall in the late frames. Interesting times ahead. 
floop-ecmwf_full-2022111700.prateptype_cat_ecmwf.conus.gif.0f151dbcd8020b872cec00d71948e878.gif

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42 minutes ago, MaineJay said:

Right now, I'd put my money on a late phase, too late for most, maybe all. But, maybe that's me hoping for a few more weeks of fall to finish outdoor projects...

Not a bad bet. 9 out of 10 times, if not more, that's how it goes. 9.6 out of 10 times?

74% of stats are made up.

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1 hour ago, JDClapper said:

Not a bad bet. 9 out of 10 times, if not more, that's how it goes. 9.6 out of 10 times?

74% of stats are made up.

If you live in Maine, you catch more late phases 100 percent of the time. 

😉

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Right now we have the 3 likely solutions of warmer and more rain 6z GFS, Euro suppressed, CMC middleish ground/ 0z GFS

6z GFS

prateptype_cat.us_ne.png.a8597955b83c886af0a8b623c8c2cb7d.png

0z Euro, which then goes on to squash/ dry out the precip

prateptype_cat_ecmwf.us_ne.png.e158a6b6f2cc25cec476f7984c728941.png

CMC (Middle ground)

prateptype.us_ne.png.92460178a9755b3131bdcad9b67f1697.png

0z GFS (middle ground)

724259280_prateptype_cat.us_ne(1).png.0cd4cdfaf0f50d0fd790888a76026988.png

 

I would at this point argue against the warm solution as cold has generally been well forecast to under forecast with hold cold it will be. I'd lean towards suppression-the middle ground solution at this juncture.

Edited by HVSNOWSTORM
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1 hour ago, HVSNOWSTORM said:

Right now we have the 3 likely solutions of warmer and more rain 6z GFS, Euro suppressed, CMC middleish ground/ 0z GFS

6z GFS

prateptype_cat.us_ne.png.a8597955b83c886af0a8b623c8c2cb7d.png

0z Euro, which then goes on to squash/ dry out the precip

prateptype_cat_ecmwf.us_ne.png.e158a6b6f2cc25cec476f7984c728941.png

CMC (Middle ground)

prateptype.us_ne.png.92460178a9755b3131bdcad9b67f1697.png

0z GFS (middle ground)

724259280_prateptype_cat.us_ne(1).png.0cd4cdfaf0f50d0fd790888a76026988.png

 

I would at this point argue against the warm solution as cold has generally been well forecast to under forecast with hold cold it will be. I'd lean towards suppression-the middle ground solution at this juncture.

12z GFS spitting out an interior monster.

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